Really enjoying the comments here. I thought I'd mention for any who might not have thought to read it yet that Heaney's introduction is very much worth reading. The first part offers an excellent complement to John's guidance on Beowulf, and the second half, a kind of cultural biography of Heaney's relationship, as an Irish Catholic, to the English language, provoked by this act of translation, provides fascinating insights into the relationship between language and culture.
Yes, that is a lovely essay--though (as I commented to someone else) he refers to Grendel as a kind of “dog’s breath in the dark,” which actually sounds soothing, since my Doberman sleeps next to me.
"This seems to establish some sort of monstrous equivalence between Beowulf and Grendel."
As I was reading, I got the sense that they were both two sides of the same berserker. Grendel read almost like a cautionary tale - a corrupted version of the warrior Beowulf is. At the beginning, reading Beowulf's account of his credentials, I couldn't decide if he was boastful or justly confident as we only had his word for his deeds. He did come with a devoted entourage, though, so that provides social proof, I suppose, but it's interesting that there was an alternate version to one of his deeds. Yet that was delivered by someone with questionable motives. Was Unferth motivated by envy or merely recounting what really happened? At this point, we don't know.
So, it makes me interested to learn as the story unfolds is Grendel, indeed, a warning of what can happen when one's violence is no longer tempered by nobility, when they let the most destructive and egotistical emotions overwhelm them?
Or am I reading this with too much 21st century angst?
(PS I'm enjoying the reading and the posts so much!)
You raise some excellent points. Hrothgar is actually going to address this issue about the fine line between the wise use of power and corruption in a speech in this coming week’s installment--a speech that is sometimes called “Hrothgar’s Sermon.”
I think your reading goes well with John’s discussion of Beowulf as a berserker, the way Beowulf mirrors Grendel’s weaponless combat etc. There’s some kind of relationship there; Grendel is Beowulf’s dark twin, or Beowulf is Grendel’s light one.
Thank you, John, for more compelling commentary on what makes for a good leader and a loathsome monster (per the Anglo-Saxon epic). Living in such a dark, perilous world engendered extreme fears of marauders in the night (imagined or not). The outsider still evokes modern-day horror. No wonder Beowulf still resonates so plangently within our bone-houses!
I was also struck by the description of Unferth as being "crouched at the king's feet" (line 499). This word choice evoked for me "cringing" and brought to mind the image of Princess Leia at the feet of Jabba the Hut, whereas another word like "seated" would not have had the same effect for me.
I thought the differing versions of the swim with Breca arose from the differing motivations of the two speakers. We are told in lines 500-505 that Unferth "could not brook or abide the fact that anyone else alive under heaven might enjoy greater regard than he did," so his purpose is to denigrate Beowulf; insecure people often try to make themselves feel better by putting down others whom they perceive to be "better" in some way than they are. Beowulf's purpose, on the other hand, seems to be to establish his credentials when it comes to fighting monsters: "my sword had killed nine sea-monsters" (lines 574-575). I don’t think Beowulf even addresses who "won" the swimming match.
Yes, and it’s notable that Beowulf doesn’t originally bring up the match with Breca. He only sets the record straight after Unferth gives his account. It’s interesting, however, that he doesn’t hold a grudge: later, he seems to make friends with Unferth, and they exchange swords and compliments.
What a challenging delight to be part of your project without my printed book, only Heaney’s voice in my ear. In a way, that’s clarifying, like taking your glasses off to look at a painting. The poem distillls itself to three escalating tests of courage and character. Sometimes I notice echoes that I missed while reading. For instance, two heads not far apart in the narrative. One is the head of a noble thane, mourned by his comrades. The other, Grendel’s massive head. It takes four men to carry this head. The ear picks up some reverberations that the eye does not. When I get home, I will reread while listening, the gold standard.
Yes, every time I read it, even after all these years, I pick up new interesting juxtapositions like that. I have a few more to point out on Wednesday, especially regarding the Finn episode.
About the Old English convention of honorifics -- they are also prominent in the Bhagavad Gita, so I wonder if they are common to Indo-European culture, or to oral cultures more generally? I envision them as a kind of 'walking CV,' in which each offers new information about the bearer's pedigree -- similar to what we hear in introductions to talks (at least in academia). If they do function in that way, I would think they would be especially important in oral cultures, especially when moving between different social networks when one's reputation might not already be known.
You've made the point that the author is a Christian writing about Pagans and that is clear in lines 170-188. But I also noticed references from the characters themselves seemingly to one God, the Almighty and the like. Are they referring to Pagan God/Gods?
I had no idea how I'd take to this sort of poetry but I really enjoyed it. I rarely read fiction but I was part of a reading of "Jesus' Son" by Denis Johnson that had the same sort of time-free poetic effect on me. I described it then as more like listening to music than reading. It's almost as if I'm using a different part of my brain when reading it, or maybe some part is turned off, hard to say.
Good question. It’s hard to say for sure, but I think that the poet is simply putting his idiomatic language into the voices of his characters. He is certainly aware that they are pagans. One way to think about it may be to consider, for example, Hrothgar’s use of “Almighty God” and the link as somewhat interchangeable with “wyrd” or “fate.” There will be some evidence for this reading which I will bring up related to the next installment of the poem.
Also, I like your association with music here. I think that the best poetry has this sort of musical effect--at least on me.
I appreciate not only your insightful commentary but the resources you provide for further exploration. The drag queen’s performance of Headley’s translation is an incongruous delight. What would the Beowulf poet have made of that?
No rest for the weary in our reading this week! Having their mead hall trashed and having to rely on Beowulf to defeat the spawn of Cain two nights in a row must be quite an uncomfortable position for the Danes, no matter how Hrothgar accepts Beowulf like a son and savior. Perhaps that is why I thoroughly enjoyed Headley's translation of the story. The acclaimed voices who deliver Headley's translation exercise great freedom in their renditions. I particularly enjoyed Dylan Baker's reading of "Meanwhile, Beowulf gave zero shits" as the Danes on the shore of Grendel's mother's "mere" gang up on one puny sea monster and kill it dead!!! His disdain for their pathetic attempts to control a monster reverberates with Anglo-Saxon "wyrd-ness" and, to my taste, makes for a much more rollicking epic!
That isn't to say that I don't appreciate Heaney's translation and his care to blend merciful Christianity into the forbidding pagan world of Scandinavia. The link to Seamus Heaney"s reading of the poem adds such magnificent and convincing dimension to our comprehension of the epic. And how effective are the crackling tongues of fire that the listeners gather around in pulling us deep into the fearsome darkness and cold! A little shiver goes up my spine as Heaney delivers the lines as though he has lived them!
Finally, the link to the BBC documentary (could our narrator be any more infectiously enthusiastic delving into the history of the epic?) is superb. The unearthing of the Sutton Hoo's treasures reinforces credibility of the epic. An exciting of reading, listening, and watching to be sure!
John - superb overview and highlighting of some key themes. Really brought together something things I was curious about. One of the most fascinating pieces here for me is the study of names. In this day and age we seldom think about a name's meaning. Historically though names were important, a critical social indicator of value or accomplishment, personal or familial.
Yes, I think you’ve put your finger on the essential difference here. Grendel’s mother actually plays by the rules of revenge. But, of course, since she is a monster, the Danes don’t seem to recognize this.
Cain certainly is one of the Bible's bad guys. The first murderer, probably in the first degree.
However, it's often underemphasized that the "mark of Cain" was not an invitation by God for others (whoever they were!) to punish Cain, but, instead, a mark of protection. In fact, it was a warning to leave Cain alone, because the punishment of Cain was entirely up to God.
And if these monsters are descended from Cain, then God's punishment of Cain by exile turns out to have been too lenient!
Not having animals to tend, unless you count the sleeping dog, I catch up with books by author friends. I am chronically behind. I don’t mean to disparage my friends, but they don’t write thrillers and usually send me back to sleep.
I don’t know if you’ve looked at Headley’s slangy version yet, but I believe her translation arose from her interest in the figure of Grendel’s mother - and in particular the word aglæcwif used to describe her.
(Headley thinks it has more warrior-like associations than other translators do, more “fierce” than “wretched,” and that Grendel’s mom thus gets kind of a raw deal in most translations which render aglæcwif as something like “wretched crone”. She’s even got a big tattoo of the word aglæc on one arm!)
Love it. I've been thinking of getting a Beowulf tattoo for a while, but haven't been able to settle on a line. Maybe this re-read will finally settle it ...
Yeah, I wouldn’t present Headley’s as the main way anyone should get to know the poem! But it does offer an interesting variation on what can often be a daunting classic. There’s food for thought there, and no matter how slangy she gets, Headley delved deep into Old English and knows her stuff.
I like that Dinapoli rendition. I don’t think I’ve ever seen his version.
Fair enough--your comments are your comments! That said, I think that there is something to this: a “truce” in this context rarely outweighs the grudge and the desire for revenge. However, in this case it does seem like Finn tried to patch things up, and the Jutes (somehow) interfered.
Yes, I should have noted that this line in the manuscript is damaged. We don’t actually know for sure whether or not the poet names Halfdane’s daughter.
Really enjoying the comments here. I thought I'd mention for any who might not have thought to read it yet that Heaney's introduction is very much worth reading. The first part offers an excellent complement to John's guidance on Beowulf, and the second half, a kind of cultural biography of Heaney's relationship, as an Irish Catholic, to the English language, provoked by this act of translation, provides fascinating insights into the relationship between language and culture.
Yes, that is a lovely essay--though (as I commented to someone else) he refers to Grendel as a kind of “dog’s breath in the dark,” which actually sounds soothing, since my Doberman sleeps next to me.
LOL I love the smell of dogs. (I call it puppy smell.) And dog SNOUTS!
"This seems to establish some sort of monstrous equivalence between Beowulf and Grendel."
As I was reading, I got the sense that they were both two sides of the same berserker. Grendel read almost like a cautionary tale - a corrupted version of the warrior Beowulf is. At the beginning, reading Beowulf's account of his credentials, I couldn't decide if he was boastful or justly confident as we only had his word for his deeds. He did come with a devoted entourage, though, so that provides social proof, I suppose, but it's interesting that there was an alternate version to one of his deeds. Yet that was delivered by someone with questionable motives. Was Unferth motivated by envy or merely recounting what really happened? At this point, we don't know.
So, it makes me interested to learn as the story unfolds is Grendel, indeed, a warning of what can happen when one's violence is no longer tempered by nobility, when they let the most destructive and egotistical emotions overwhelm them?
Or am I reading this with too much 21st century angst?
(PS I'm enjoying the reading and the posts so much!)
You raise some excellent points. Hrothgar is actually going to address this issue about the fine line between the wise use of power and corruption in a speech in this coming week’s installment--a speech that is sometimes called “Hrothgar’s Sermon.”
I'll read it with interest! Thanks!
I think your reading goes well with John’s discussion of Beowulf as a berserker, the way Beowulf mirrors Grendel’s weaponless combat etc. There’s some kind of relationship there; Grendel is Beowulf’s dark twin, or Beowulf is Grendel’s light one.
Thank you, John, for more compelling commentary on what makes for a good leader and a loathsome monster (per the Anglo-Saxon epic). Living in such a dark, perilous world engendered extreme fears of marauders in the night (imagined or not). The outsider still evokes modern-day horror. No wonder Beowulf still resonates so plangently within our bone-houses!
Thanks, Pier. Yes, some have asked me about the poem’s continued appeal, and I think that horror has a lot to do with it.
I was also struck by the description of Unferth as being "crouched at the king's feet" (line 499). This word choice evoked for me "cringing" and brought to mind the image of Princess Leia at the feet of Jabba the Hut, whereas another word like "seated" would not have had the same effect for me.
Yes, and it also resonates with Wormtongue in The Lord of the Rings--a parallel I’m sure we’ll be discussing some time in April.
I thought the differing versions of the swim with Breca arose from the differing motivations of the two speakers. We are told in lines 500-505 that Unferth "could not brook or abide the fact that anyone else alive under heaven might enjoy greater regard than he did," so his purpose is to denigrate Beowulf; insecure people often try to make themselves feel better by putting down others whom they perceive to be "better" in some way than they are. Beowulf's purpose, on the other hand, seems to be to establish his credentials when it comes to fighting monsters: "my sword had killed nine sea-monsters" (lines 574-575). I don’t think Beowulf even addresses who "won" the swimming match.
Yes, and it’s notable that Beowulf doesn’t originally bring up the match with Breca. He only sets the record straight after Unferth gives his account. It’s interesting, however, that he doesn’t hold a grudge: later, he seems to make friends with Unferth, and they exchange swords and compliments.
What a challenging delight to be part of your project without my printed book, only Heaney’s voice in my ear. In a way, that’s clarifying, like taking your glasses off to look at a painting. The poem distillls itself to three escalating tests of courage and character. Sometimes I notice echoes that I missed while reading. For instance, two heads not far apart in the narrative. One is the head of a noble thane, mourned by his comrades. The other, Grendel’s massive head. It takes four men to carry this head. The ear picks up some reverberations that the eye does not. When I get home, I will reread while listening, the gold standard.
Yes, every time I read it, even after all these years, I pick up new interesting juxtapositions like that. I have a few more to point out on Wednesday, especially regarding the Finn episode.
Looking forward.
About the Old English convention of honorifics -- they are also prominent in the Bhagavad Gita, so I wonder if they are common to Indo-European culture, or to oral cultures more generally? I envision them as a kind of 'walking CV,' in which each offers new information about the bearer's pedigree -- similar to what we hear in introductions to talks (at least in academia). If they do function in that way, I would think they would be especially important in oral cultures, especially when moving between different social networks when one's reputation might not already be known.
That’s interesting about the Bhagavad Gita. There are analogous conventions in Homer as well, which works with your suggestion of an oral culture.
You've made the point that the author is a Christian writing about Pagans and that is clear in lines 170-188. But I also noticed references from the characters themselves seemingly to one God, the Almighty and the like. Are they referring to Pagan God/Gods?
I had no idea how I'd take to this sort of poetry but I really enjoyed it. I rarely read fiction but I was part of a reading of "Jesus' Son" by Denis Johnson that had the same sort of time-free poetic effect on me. I described it then as more like listening to music than reading. It's almost as if I'm using a different part of my brain when reading it, or maybe some part is turned off, hard to say.
Good question. It’s hard to say for sure, but I think that the poet is simply putting his idiomatic language into the voices of his characters. He is certainly aware that they are pagans. One way to think about it may be to consider, for example, Hrothgar’s use of “Almighty God” and the link as somewhat interchangeable with “wyrd” or “fate.” There will be some evidence for this reading which I will bring up related to the next installment of the poem.
Also, I like your association with music here. I think that the best poetry has this sort of musical effect--at least on me.
Thanks, seems like that to me too. I definitely felt that fate was the characters' main reason to explain events and the author used God's providence.
I appreciate not only your insightful commentary but the resources you provide for further exploration. The drag queen’s performance of Headley’s translation is an incongruous delight. What would the Beowulf poet have made of that?
He certainly would have been confused!
No rest for the weary in our reading this week! Having their mead hall trashed and having to rely on Beowulf to defeat the spawn of Cain two nights in a row must be quite an uncomfortable position for the Danes, no matter how Hrothgar accepts Beowulf like a son and savior. Perhaps that is why I thoroughly enjoyed Headley's translation of the story. The acclaimed voices who deliver Headley's translation exercise great freedom in their renditions. I particularly enjoyed Dylan Baker's reading of "Meanwhile, Beowulf gave zero shits" as the Danes on the shore of Grendel's mother's "mere" gang up on one puny sea monster and kill it dead!!! His disdain for their pathetic attempts to control a monster reverberates with Anglo-Saxon "wyrd-ness" and, to my taste, makes for a much more rollicking epic!
That isn't to say that I don't appreciate Heaney's translation and his care to blend merciful Christianity into the forbidding pagan world of Scandinavia. The link to Seamus Heaney"s reading of the poem adds such magnificent and convincing dimension to our comprehension of the epic. And how effective are the crackling tongues of fire that the listeners gather around in pulling us deep into the fearsome darkness and cold! A little shiver goes up my spine as Heaney delivers the lines as though he has lived them!
Finally, the link to the BBC documentary (could our narrator be any more infectiously enthusiastic delving into the history of the epic?) is superb. The unearthing of the Sutton Hoo's treasures reinforces credibility of the epic. An exciting of reading, listening, and watching to be sure!
It’s a multimedia Beowulfian week!
John - superb overview and highlighting of some key themes. Really brought together something things I was curious about. One of the most fascinating pieces here for me is the study of names. In this day and age we seldom think about a name's meaning. Historically though names were important, a critical social indicator of value or accomplishment, personal or familial.
Thanks for the mention, John
Oh, I like that! He is setting the record straight, just as he does in response to Unferth.
Yes, I think you’ve put your finger on the essential difference here. Grendel’s mother actually plays by the rules of revenge. But, of course, since she is a monster, the Danes don’t seem to recognize this.
Cain certainly is one of the Bible's bad guys. The first murderer, probably in the first degree.
However, it's often underemphasized that the "mark of Cain" was not an invitation by God for others (whoever they were!) to punish Cain, but, instead, a mark of protection. In fact, it was a warning to leave Cain alone, because the punishment of Cain was entirely up to God.
And if these monsters are descended from Cain, then God's punishment of Cain by exile turns out to have been too lenient!
Not having animals to tend, unless you count the sleeping dog, I catch up with books by author friends. I am chronically behind. I don’t mean to disparage my friends, but they don’t write thrillers and usually send me back to sleep.
I don’t know if you’ve looked at Headley’s slangy version yet, but I believe her translation arose from her interest in the figure of Grendel’s mother - and in particular the word aglæcwif used to describe her.
(Headley thinks it has more warrior-like associations than other translators do, more “fierce” than “wretched,” and that Grendel’s mom thus gets kind of a raw deal in most translations which render aglæcwif as something like “wretched crone”. She’s even got a big tattoo of the word aglæc on one arm!)
Love it. I've been thinking of getting a Beowulf tattoo for a while, but haven't been able to settle on a line. Maybe this re-read will finally settle it ...
Yeah, I wouldn’t present Headley’s as the main way anyone should get to know the poem! But it does offer an interesting variation on what can often be a daunting classic. There’s food for thought there, and no matter how slangy she gets, Headley delved deep into Old English and knows her stuff.
I like that Dinapoli rendition. I don’t think I’ve ever seen his version.
What's AUD130? Sometimes I am woefully underinformed. ;-)
I'm going to have to get a copy for myself. And he's a semi-relative? Very cool! I hope you'll report back on the event if you ever have that tea.
An insomnia workshop! Is there room for me? We can talk ourselves to sleep with monster stories.
Fair enough--your comments are your comments! That said, I think that there is something to this: a “truce” in this context rarely outweighs the grudge and the desire for revenge. However, in this case it does seem like Finn tried to patch things up, and the Jutes (somehow) interfered.
The rings are arm bands made of precious metals--status symbols and valuable gifts.
The Jutes are another rival tribe. According to Bede, they came to England along with the Angles and the Saxons.
Yes, I should have noted that this line in the manuscript is damaged. We don’t actually know for sure whether or not the poet names Halfdane’s daughter.