I studied Chaucer at school and university. In fact, translating Chaucer made 16 year old me realise that literature could actually be studied (I have never looked back).
Yes, the fifth is my favourite. It uses musical themes that Vaughan Williams also used in his opera Pilgrim's Progress, which he was also writing at the time. In his hand written manuscript, he wrote over the third movement, Romanza, these words from Bunyan's allegory:
'Upon that place there stood a cross
And a little below a sepulchre … Then he said
"He hath given me rest by his sorrow and
Life by his death'
The words were not published, as Vaughan Williams wanted the Symphony to be regarded as absolute music (the themes are purely musical), rather than program music (the themes are based on a written narrative). There is a slight snobbishness in the classical music world toward program music being of a lower order than absolute music, and Vaughan Williams had such a hard time breaking into the 'serious' composer category that I wonder if he was a bit self conscious.
There is a resemblance between Vaughan Williams and Sibelius in how they usually use the orchestras as a cohesive blend to produce tonal colours, rather than having each section's tonal colours play off one another the way most symphonic composers, such as Beethoven or Prokofiev, use the orchestra. But Sibelius's symphonies have the sound of the wind in vast pine forests and cold northern lights, while Vaughan Williams's success came in using the simple phraseology of folk music to weave a tapestry evocative of his British heritage.
I would chose Schubert. Austen described her work as an ivory miniature, and remained in the background for most of her short life. Beethoven is much too large, Mozart too famous, and Haydn too broadly humourous for her incisive wit. Schubert's work was written for drawing rooms like Austen's settings, his symphonic instrumentation is on the smallest possible scale, and like Austen was unknown outside his circle for most of his short life.
Thanks for the Bunyan quotation! I’ve always thought that Sibelius must be wind players’ favorite symphonic composer and string players’ least favorite—with all of those repetitive ostinatos that they have to play. But yes, you can hear those horn calls echoing through the northern woods!
I agree that Schubert is a closer analogy to Austen than the others, and that he did a lot of work in smaller forms—though I was recently listening to some of the English and Scottish folk song settings by Haydn and Beethoven (which they did for a quick buck) and was wondering if Austen may have heard some of them. They were meant for her market, after all.
As a former clarinetist, I can confirm your idea that Sibelius is a friend to wind players but not to string players! (Although Bruckner, with endless passages of tremolos in his symphonies, remains the greatest foe for a string player's arm.)
I have thought she must have heard Mozart, since in the Bath concert scene in 'Persuasion', the songs are in Italian and I always assumed they were selections from Mozart's Italian operas.
Oh, yes! That seems likely. In the Colin Firth adaptation of P&P, they have Lizzy play the slow movement of the D Minor piano concerto, which works nicely dramatically, though perhaps an unlikely choice.
In that version, on Lady Catherine de Burgh's pianoforte, she plays the Theme from the 1st mvmnt of Mozart's Piano Sonata in A+ K331 (Alla Turca). I now remember that scene every time I play the Sonata.
That’s right! And they have one of the Bingley sisters play Rondo a la Turk at a ridiculous tempo! And come to think of it, I think it’s Georgiana Darcy who plays the D Minor concerto, with Lizzy turning pages for her.
Before this challenge I had never listened to Vaughan Williams (or at least, not knowingly), so I have loved this multi-week survey of his work alongside Tolkien. Really excited for the Emma readalong and whichever composer goes with it!
What a full-circle moment for me as a PCF reader. I subscribed shortly after you reshared your great essay on RVW and Tolkien, and asked where to begin with his symphonies. You recommended the Fifth and it's won my heart over many times since then — so great to have you round out your listening challenge with this work. I have a feeling the Romanza will be making an appearance at Shades of Blue at some point!
Your take on all these composers would be great. I voted for Schumann because Clara and Jane Austen sound like a great pairing. Having Robert along for the ride would be fine. ;-)
When you get to Beethoven, if I don’t seem to be paying attention in comments, give me a shout. I have a Beethoven/Schiller (9th Symphony) essay that could run in November or July but is flexible. I’d be glad to cluster our Beethovens.
Alas, Schumann wasn’t in the poll: you must have hit the Schubert button. But I’ll get to Robert at some point. And yes, I’ll hit you up when we do Beethoven!
Haha! You’re right. I read Schubert as Schumann and just ignored a few letters. I’ll read the poll again after more sleep. If a dream tells me to change my vote to somebody named Haycroft, I’ll hang up my proofreading spurs and stay away from polls.
Chaucer! Count me in. A baby made short work of my plan for graduate studies on Chaucer, which is probably just as well. Whatever you do will be more fun.
I’m in for Emma. Those last two weeks I may be mum then pop in later as I’ll be in Croatia and quite possibly offline (!!). Look forward to it and your spin.
This all sounds great! Looking forward, in particular, to Chaucer.
You’ll be reading him alongside my graduate students next spring.
I studied Chaucer at school and university. In fact, translating Chaucer made 16 year old me realise that literature could actually be studied (I have never looked back).
Yes, the fifth is my favourite. It uses musical themes that Vaughan Williams also used in his opera Pilgrim's Progress, which he was also writing at the time. In his hand written manuscript, he wrote over the third movement, Romanza, these words from Bunyan's allegory:
'Upon that place there stood a cross
And a little below a sepulchre … Then he said
"He hath given me rest by his sorrow and
Life by his death'
The words were not published, as Vaughan Williams wanted the Symphony to be regarded as absolute music (the themes are purely musical), rather than program music (the themes are based on a written narrative). There is a slight snobbishness in the classical music world toward program music being of a lower order than absolute music, and Vaughan Williams had such a hard time breaking into the 'serious' composer category that I wonder if he was a bit self conscious.
There is a resemblance between Vaughan Williams and Sibelius in how they usually use the orchestras as a cohesive blend to produce tonal colours, rather than having each section's tonal colours play off one another the way most symphonic composers, such as Beethoven or Prokofiev, use the orchestra. But Sibelius's symphonies have the sound of the wind in vast pine forests and cold northern lights, while Vaughan Williams's success came in using the simple phraseology of folk music to weave a tapestry evocative of his British heritage.
I would chose Schubert. Austen described her work as an ivory miniature, and remained in the background for most of her short life. Beethoven is much too large, Mozart too famous, and Haydn too broadly humourous for her incisive wit. Schubert's work was written for drawing rooms like Austen's settings, his symphonic instrumentation is on the smallest possible scale, and like Austen was unknown outside his circle for most of his short life.
Thanks for the Bunyan quotation! I’ve always thought that Sibelius must be wind players’ favorite symphonic composer and string players’ least favorite—with all of those repetitive ostinatos that they have to play. But yes, you can hear those horn calls echoing through the northern woods!
I agree that Schubert is a closer analogy to Austen than the others, and that he did a lot of work in smaller forms—though I was recently listening to some of the English and Scottish folk song settings by Haydn and Beethoven (which they did for a quick buck) and was wondering if Austen may have heard some of them. They were meant for her market, after all.
As a former clarinetist, I can confirm your idea that Sibelius is a friend to wind players but not to string players! (Although Bruckner, with endless passages of tremolos in his symphonies, remains the greatest foe for a string player's arm.)
I have thought she must have heard Mozart, since in the Bath concert scene in 'Persuasion', the songs are in Italian and I always assumed they were selections from Mozart's Italian operas.
Oh, yes! That seems likely. In the Colin Firth adaptation of P&P, they have Lizzy play the slow movement of the D Minor piano concerto, which works nicely dramatically, though perhaps an unlikely choice.
In that version, on Lady Catherine de Burgh's pianoforte, she plays the Theme from the 1st mvmnt of Mozart's Piano Sonata in A+ K331 (Alla Turca). I now remember that scene every time I play the Sonata.
That’s right! And they have one of the Bingley sisters play Rondo a la Turk at a ridiculous tempo! And come to think of it, I think it’s Georgiana Darcy who plays the D Minor concerto, with Lizzy turning pages for her.
Before this challenge I had never listened to Vaughan Williams (or at least, not knowingly), so I have loved this multi-week survey of his work alongside Tolkien. Really excited for the Emma readalong and whichever composer goes with it!
Hurray! One more RVW convert!
For some reason the polls never work for me but my vote would be for Haydn.
You may like this meme on “The Gandalf Method” of problem-solving that appeared on my Instagram feed: https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/C6jnrHjN-bN/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I’m speechless: that is perfect!
More fun: should you have a spare $1000 at hand, you can recreate Tolkien's world in Lego with the Rivendell set (https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/the-lord-of-the-rings-rivendell-10316) and the Barad-dur set (https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/the-lord-of-the-rings-barad-dur-10333).
If I were wealthy, I would totally buy those!
What a full-circle moment for me as a PCF reader. I subscribed shortly after you reshared your great essay on RVW and Tolkien, and asked where to begin with his symphonies. You recommended the Fifth and it's won my heart over many times since then — so great to have you round out your listening challenge with this work. I have a feeling the Romanza will be making an appearance at Shades of Blue at some point!
So glad you love the Fifth! And yes, the Romanza seems an excellent candidate for Shades of Blue.
Really looking forward to all of it - revisiting Chaucer, and of course, Emma!
Excellent! I’ll be in touch about your guest post.
Sounds great!
Your take on all these composers would be great. I voted for Schumann because Clara and Jane Austen sound like a great pairing. Having Robert along for the ride would be fine. ;-)
When you get to Beethoven, if I don’t seem to be paying attention in comments, give me a shout. I have a Beethoven/Schiller (9th Symphony) essay that could run in November or July but is flexible. I’d be glad to cluster our Beethovens.
Alas, Schumann wasn’t in the poll: you must have hit the Schubert button. But I’ll get to Robert at some point. And yes, I’ll hit you up when we do Beethoven!
Haha! You’re right. I read Schubert as Schumann and just ignored a few letters. I’ll read the poll again after more sleep. If a dream tells me to change my vote to somebody named Haycroft, I’ll hang up my proofreading spurs and stay away from polls.
Chaucer! Count me in. A baby made short work of my plan for graduate studies on Chaucer, which is probably just as well. Whatever you do will be more fun.
Oh, we’ll have fun all right! It doesn’t get better than Chaucer.
VERY excited for Chaucer. I’ve got my copy of the Riverside ready.
Riverside—that’s hardcore!
Never met a footnote I didn’t like. ☺️🙏
Really looking forward to this, John. I loved all your LOTR pieces, made me read it with new eyes. Chaucer will be a treat.
Thank you! That makes my day.
And mispelled him!!
Ha! I was thinking that maybe you were under the impression that it would be some kind of feature on Hayden White 😉
I voted Hayden.
Looking forward to the Emma challenge!!!!!!
Sibelius, yes.
Emma!
I voted Schubert.
You're really stepping it up on the typewriters!
You should see my storage room…
So many exciting things coming up. I’m all in. Thanks John!
So many exciting projects coming up!
I’m in for Emma. Those last two weeks I may be mum then pop in later as I’ll be in Croatia and quite possibly offline (!!). Look forward to it and your spin.
Super! So glad you’ll be joining!